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Thread: Competing with the big dogs

  1. #1
    nux
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    Competing with the big dogs

    Hey, I have a question. I purchased a site a few months ago, and finally got around to a redesign and now I'm looking at SEO. It's in the same niche as some huge sites...image hosting...imageshack, tinypic, photobucker, badongo...I've done a little keyword research, and everything I'm looking at currently has huge players on the top.

    My question is, do I have a chance? None of them are really directly competing for the low keywords I'm looking at. They're just up in the top because they are PR6+. If I agressively target a keyword they're not specifically targeting, but they're #1 for, could I wiggle my way to the top?

    I'm by no means a pro...I've been doing SEO seriously for about a month now, after about 7 months of building websites (without seo) and it's been going pretty well.

    Anyways, I'd appreciate thoughts on this.

    Thanks
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  2. #2
    Will.Spencer's Avatar
    Will.Spencer is offline Retired
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    You can almost always win if you have enough focus. The question is, "Will winning this keyword generate enough RoI to make the effort worthwhile?"

    I would not compete against those sites unless there was something about my site that made it special and linkworthy. How is your site special? Why should a visitor use your sites instead of one of the established competitors? Why should a visitor recommend your site to a friend? Why should a blogger write a post about your site?
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    nux
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    That makes sense. So big sites that have control of phrases they aren't directly compteting are still hard to grab?

    The site (imglab) isn't really anything spectacular. I have a few ideas of features to add but as of now it's pretty basic. I spose I should focus on that before any effort is put into seo.
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    Will.Spencer's Avatar
    Will.Spencer is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by nux View Post
    That makes sense. So big sites that have control of phrases they aren't directly compteting are still hard to grab?
    They can be, because Google places so much weight on domain authority.

    You can do some good competitive analysis with SEO For Firefox, but the only real way to determine the competitiveness of a SERP is to put up a page and see where it ranks.
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    nux
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    Thanks Will. That's what I assumed, but was hoping it wasn't the case. I use SEO for Firefox all the time and I have to say it has become a valuable tool in determining if keywords have high or low competition.
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    rome9t9 is offline No Longer Loves SEO
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    Start from long tail KWs..it will be kinda cyclic..

    using longtail will bring people to your site..they will host their images..they may post pics(hosted by you) on other forums and blogs..this will give you backlinks..you will rise in SERPS and more people will come and host with you..

    They're just up in the top because they are PR6+
    Always remember, PR has nothing to do with serps..its the content and backlinks that matters..

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    Just make sure that you are promoting your site with those highly competitive keywords and you don't have many competitors. If you will always think about them then you will never be able to beat them.

    Another thing to make sure is that your website do have something better to serve to visitors compared to your competitor.

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    nux
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    Quote Originally Posted by extreme-seo View Post
    Just make sure that you are promoting your site with those highly competitive keywords and you don't have many competitors.
    Can you clarify this please?
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    Canonical is offline Unknown Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by nux View Post
    Hey, I have a question. I purchased a site a few months ago, and finally got around to a redesign and now I'm looking at SEO. It's in the same niche as some huge sites...image hosting...imageshack, tinypic, photobucker, badongo...I've done a little keyword research, and everything I'm looking at currently has huge players on the top.

    My question is, do I have a chance? None of them are really directly competing for the low keywords I'm looking at. They're just up in the top because they are PR6+. If I agressively target a keyword they're not specifically targeting, but they're #1 for, could I wiggle my way to the top?

    I'm by no means a pro...I've been doing SEO seriously for about a month now, after about 7 months of building websites (without seo) and it's been going pretty well.

    Anyways, I'd appreciate thoughts on this.

    Thanks
    If you are talking about Google rankings (assuming you are since talking about PR) then I think you may be a bit misguided to think that 1) those sites are NOT directly competing for those keywords you're looking at and 2) that they rank #1 because they are PR6.

    PR alone has almost zero to do with how a particular URL ranks for some given keyword phrase. There is a much BIGGER reason that those sites are ranking high for the keyword phrases in question, and I can guarantee it has little if anything to do with PR.

    More than likely they are ranking for those keywords because of their back link profile. One might assume that they are not directly targetting those keyword phrases because the keyword phrase doesn't even appear on the page, but that doesn't mean that the site owner has not had a link development campaign running building links to that page with those keywords phrases as the link text. Other sites are likely linking to them with those keyword phrases (or slight variations) as the link text and in many cases those sites linking with them are also relevant and may also have high PR. I explained this just yesterday in a post on another forum. The post was as follows:

    Links from high PR sites that are not relevant and do not have the keywords you want to rank for as the link text will NOT help your URL's rankings... All they do is pass your page PR. And PR has almost no effect on rankings since it is only a minor ranking factor and only 1 of 200+ such factors. Other things like the link text of inbound links and the relevance of the page linking to your URL carry far more weight. The <title> and <h1> of the page itself probably carries more weight than the URL's own PR.

    IMO the following three attributes of a link are the most important and are listed in the order of importance with regard to Google rankings...


    link text contains targeted keyword phrase > links from relevant page > links from high PR page


    In other words, I think Google "rates" links from best to worst as follows:

    EXCELLENT: link text contains targeted keyword phrase PLUS link is from relevant page PLUS link is from high PR page
    VERY GOOD: link text contains targeted keyword phrase PLUS link is from relevant page (not from high PR page)
    GOOD: link text contains targeted keyword phrase PLUS link is from high PR page (not from relevant page)
    FAIR: link text contains targeted keyword phrase only (not from relevant page / not from high PR page)
    POOR: link is from relevant page PLUS link is from high PR page (link text does NOT contain targeted keyword phrase)
    VERY POOR: link is from relevant page only (link text does NOT contain targeted keyword phrase and not from high PR page)
    WORST: link is from high PR page only (link text does NOT contain targeted keyword phrase and not from relevant page)

    The above handles every combination of the 3 important attributes of an inbound link. Links rated POOR and lower likely have very little if any influence on your URL's ranking for a given keyword phrase.

    PS: By link text contains targeted keyword phrase I mean either the targeted keyword phrase or some variation of that keyword phrase... some link text that would lead Google to believe that the page is somehow related to the search phrase.

  11. #10
    Dr. Stavros is offline Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by rome9t9 View Post
    Always remember, PR has nothing to do with serps..its the content and backlinks that matters..
    Stop the madness! Good content leads to people giving you backlinks. People giving you backlinks leads to a high PageRank. A high PageRank helps you to appear higher in the SERPs.

    Notice I said helps. Sure, PageRank is just one of many factors that influence a site's position in the SERPs, but it is a factor. It does contribute. Read the Wikipedia page on PageRank and then tell me that they do all that for nothing.

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