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Thread: Can a truly democratic society truly work?

  1. #1

    Can a truly democratic society truly work?

    One of the best video series I have watched so far is:



    You can watch all 6 videos and read a synopsis here:

    The History of Brainwashing – The Start of Stupid





    Basically in the 20s, Sigmund Freud's nephew started using psychology in marketing and convinced the public that women smoking is not a taboo but a sign of empowerment. "Torches of freedom" they were then called.

    He then moved into the ranks of politics and continued pushing the economy before the collapse.

    At that time the American mindset started changing. Buying on credit, consumerism rose and due to the events going on in the world, Bernay came to the conclusion that the masses are unfit to make good decisions on their own, and unless an elite made exclusive decisions, the nation would collapse.

    Watch the series and let me know what you think!
    Last edited by Mike Dammann; 7 June, 2010 at 19:41 PM.
    I am also a writer for Serpholic Media. You can find some of my articles here: Serpholic Media Blog

  2. #2
    Can't watch the Vids as have no speakers connected up, but I have often pondered the democracy thing myself.

    Democracy assumes that a majority of people a majority of the time are capable of making the correct decisions on a wide range of subjects that they may not know enough about or have everyones best interest at heart.

    So theoretically democracy is therefore flawed, but the same can also be said for an elite who may also not know enough about each and every subject and may also make unsound decisions that are not in everyones best interest, you know what they say about absolute power.

    What the perfect answer is though I don't really know.

  3. #3
    It's mostly a question as to whether people need to be protected from their own dumbness and if they are not, will they head for destruction.
    I am also a writer for Serpholic Media. You can find some of my articles here: Serpholic Media Blog

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by kerrin View Post
    What is their "dumbness"? Is that ignorance?

    How do you even protect someone from their own ignorance?

    I'd tend to think ignorance is helped or overcome by education; not by control or protection... self-governance is achieved through greater knowledge.

    “I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education.”—Thomas Jefferson
    Good quote from Thomas Jefferson kerrin!

    Thing is though this education thing depends on everyone understanding subjects and the majority agreeing what is right. That means the minority are always going to be discriminated against.

    If people listen to experts on subjects democracy theoretrically can work.

    We are said to have a democracy here in the UK but really this is not actually true.

    We have the House of Commons making many decisions but they have to be passed on to the House of Lords (who are hereditary Peers) to have bills passed in the main.

    Then we have the system where we have 2 main parties have power EG the Conservative and Labour parties.

    Labour come in and undo many of the things the previous Conservative Government passed when Labour we're in opposition and vice versa Conservatives come and undo things the Labour passed when the Conservatives we're in opposition.

    When you think about a system like that and look at the two Houses, that of the Commons and the Lords and then the continual tit for tat changes getting made it doesn't look like the best of systems.
    Last edited by MrFlicker; 2 April, 2010 at 01:47 AM. Reason: bepassed changed to be passed

  5. #5
    Ah interesting kerrin - how long did you live in the UK and what are the main differences you see in the UK's so called democracy and what I perceive as the US's more proper democracy (though I still see something somewhat funny going on with the voting system - Ref Al Gore and Bush).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kerrin View Post
    We moved to the States when I was seven. But I've been back a few times and have family I still talk to in the UK.

    Wow, lots of differences. I think the UK gets some stuff right (the absence of religion from politics, clear separation of church and state, there seems to be a more humanistic tone to the politics in the UK, etc.). Economics, however, in my view, is the biggest difference. In the UK there seems to be less economic freedom than in the States.

    I think, overall, more power does reside with the people here in the States, but the federal government has expanded so much in recent decades that seems to be decreasing. Ultimately, I blame the 14th Amendment for that. And while our economic freedom is greater than that of the UK it also seems to be dwindling away as more regulation and debt is piled up.
    I must admit I am not all that familiar with the US constituation or amendments kerrin.

    We in the UK seem to be getting crazier and crazier rules month by month these days, with all sorts of crackpot ideas being put forward.

    Bear in mind our Monarch (presently the Queen) is also the ead of the Church of England and this has been so since King Henri the eighth broke aay from the Catholic Church. So you could say things are not completely seperate as such.

    I don't suppose this status has much bearing on politics though.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kerrin View Post
    What is their "dumbness"? Is that ignorance?

    How do you even protect someone from their own ignorance?

    I'd tend to think ignorance is helped or overcome by education; not by control or protection... self-governance is achieved through greater knowledge.

    “I know of no safe repository of the ultimate power of society but the people. And if we think them not enlightened enough, the remedy is not to take power from them, but to inform them by education.”—Thomas Jefferson
    Real education, not false pride indoctrination.
    I am also a writer for Serpholic Media. You can find some of my articles here: Serpholic Media Blog

  8. It can't and doesn't. It also doesn't make any sense except as the latest way to justify one set of people having power over another set of people, no matter how many people are in either group. What does it matter if the rulers are the majority or the minority. Either way you have the powerful and the unfree (which usually think they're free to feel better about their situation).

    Democracy is a superstition and like any superstition it should be teared down by a more scientific thinking which can only lead to decentralization of power (which democracy is a bad pretension of). If humans need to be governed because they corrupt easily then it simply doesn't make sense to give any of them more power than any other.

  9. #9
    Keep in mind that in the USA we do not live in a democracy, We live in a representative republic. We push the concept of democracy to help free other countries from dictatorships, but we do not practice democracy ourselves.

    In a pure democracy, the majority always determines the laws, taxes and rules. We elect public officials (representatives) who frequently ignore the wishes of the people to further their own goals or the goals of their political party. They therefore do not represent the people.

    If we lived in a democracy, the people would elect the President, rather than the electoral college.

    If we lived in a democracy, Obamacare would not have passed.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  10. #10
    Last edited by Mike Dammann; 7 June, 2010 at 19:34 PM.
    I am also a writer for Serpholic Media. You can find some of my articles here: Serpholic Media Blog

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