Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Does a Constitution-free zone really exist in America?

  1. #1

    Does a Constitution-free zone really exist in America?

    Is there really a government law that disallows the Fourth Amendment for 200 million Americans? Some people say it’s true, but the reasoning behind a 100-mile “Constitution-free” zone argument is confusing at best.
    The ACLU’s Constitution-Free Zone

    The American Civil Liberties Union has been saying since 2010 that a regulation allowing customs and immigration agents to search electronic devices at America’s borders without cause is wrong. Two years prior to that, the ACLU also warned of a 100-mile-wide U.S. border called the “Constitution-free zone” where such searches could occur.


    Last Friday, the Department of Homeland Security issued a two-page review of its policy on searching laptops, cell phones, and other devices at border checks, to clarify the policy that the ACLU had questioned in 2010.
    The DHS said that customs and immigration agents can “exercise long-standing constitutional and statutory authority permitting suspicionless and warrantless searches of merchandise at the border and its functional equivalent.”
    The story was picked up by Wired magazine and some tech and political blogs as another example of the 100-mile “Constitution-free” zone and a violation of Fourth Amendment rights.


    The ACLU also asked for the details behind the decision to be released.
    To be sure, the ACLU has played a valuable role in the debate since 2008 and has obtained many government files about electronic-device searches after filing Freedom of Information Act requests.
    But the confusion seems to be centered on the idea of a 100-mile extended border for the United States, and how nearly 200 million Americans could have their laptops, cell phones, and iPads searched at any moment.
    In a lawsuit filed in 2010, the ACLU argued that “we are not saying that the government can never search or seize electronic devices at the border, but only that border agents should have some suspicion that the search will turn up evidence of wrongdoing before looking through all the private information that people have stored in their devices.”

    The 100-mile-wide border zone is from that earlier missive from the ACLU in 2008, which claimed the electronics-search zone applied to any person who lived within 100 miles of a land or sea border—which happens to be two-thirds of the American population. At the time, the ACLU labeled the area as the “Constitution-free zone.”
    Does a Constitution-free zone really exist in America?

    What do you think about this? Is it very important that authority can get all the private information that people have stored in their devices without reasonable suspicions and warrantless searches from the 100-mile-wide U.S. border called the "Constitution-free zone"?

    How can we pretend to be a democracy with anti-democratic tools like these?

  2. #2
    I havent noticed the bill of rights being much of an obstacle to tyranny anywhere in the US lately. As long as one party is intent on concentrating dictatorial power in the hands of their chief executive and the other party is either too weak to oppose it or is actually complicit, there's no barrier to stop it. Add a media that functions as the propaganda arm of the administration, and you find the Soviet Union didnt die, it just moved here.

    At no point in my life have i been so disgusted by our government. We are in a lot deeper shit than i ever imagined i'd see. If you read the writings of our founders you'll note that several mention that democracies eventually cannibalize themself once things progress to a certain point. [i realize we are a republic, but it is still based on democracy.]

    The expiration date on our constitutional republic appears to be pretty short. I'm rapidly coming to the realization our freedoms can disappear rapidly and many are largely merely imaginary already. Our politicians only worry about re-election and consider themselves a separate ruling class... Exempting themselves from the very laws they pass. In return, once elected we agree to pay them and give them health benefits better than citizens paying the tab get, for life.

    Jesse Jacksons son was a national legislator and was jailed for abuse of the funds at his disposal... And we are still paying him. We are still paying Nidal Hasan, though he was caught red handed in a terror attack 3 years ago. But we're taking away things we owe active duty soldiers. If we come back from this I'll be shocked. This thing's on the edge of implosion.
    -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. --

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by robjones View Post
    I havent noticed the bill of rights being much of an obstacle to tyranny anywhere in the US lately. As long as one party is intent on concentrating dictatorial power in the hands of their chief executive and the other party is either too weak to oppose it or is actually complicit, there's no barrier to stop it. Add a media that functions as the propaganda arm of the administration, and you find the Soviet Union didnt die, it just moved here.

    At no point in my life have i been so disgusted by our government. We are in a lot deeper shit than i ever imagined i'd see. If you read the writings of our founders you'll note that several mention that democracies eventually cannibalize themself once things progress to a certain point. [i realize we are a republic, but it is still based on democracy.]

    The expiration date on our constitutional republic appears to be pretty short. I'm rapidly coming to the realization our freedoms can disappear rapidly and many are largely merely imaginary already. Our politicians only worry about re-election and consider themselves a separate ruling class... Exempting themselves from the very laws they pass. In return, once elected we agree to pay them and give them health benefits better than citizens paying the tab get, for life.

    Jesse Jacksons son was a national legislator and was jailed for abuse of the funds at his disposal... And we are still paying him. We are still paying Nidal Hasan, though he was caught red handed in a terror attack 3 years ago. But we're taking away things we owe active duty soldiers. If we come back from this I'll be shocked. This thing's on the edge of implosion.
    There is one thing that is interesting in our Republics, you can always cast a democratic vote, but once elected they are never accountable for the policies they are creating in opposite of what they promised. In a few words, you cannot fire them when they do not execute what they were elected for. I think it has been the weakest point in our Democratic Republics.

  4. #4
    I doubly agree with Rob's statements. The problem is that common sense is no longer common, nor does it make sense. The Constitution is only as strong as those who wish to defend it. The current administration does not and the ACLU only believes in it when it fits their needs.

    When Obama was a part time law school lecturer (he never was a professor or Constitutional scholar), he frequently referred to The Constitution as a "deeply flawed document" because it did not spell out what the government should do for its citizens. The problem with that statement is that The Constitution is intended to protect us from tyrannical and corrupt governments like the one he is trying to impose. The President is not a King and The Constitution is intended to prevent him from becoming one.

    With respect to the Customs issue raised by the ACLU, I have always noted that the Customs Department, IRS, and Federal prosecutors are free to act outside the norms of the law. Any of these departments can confiscate your property or bank accounts without due process or court orders. It is therefore not wise to mess with them too much. Some parts of the government do not operate as most Americans think they do. Tyrannies do exist in the US government, but they do not normally extend to the Executive Branch. That is changing.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  5. #5
    I wouldn't blame the officers in contact with the population, most of them are supporting their families and are probably embarrassed to execute these kind of orders. I believe that all orders made at high level where different unconstitutional policies and out of control politicians involved are the real issues.

    I will also say that the lack of transparency is a big obstacle to an healthy society.

  6. #6
    Some of the issue is associated with voter fraud perpetuating the existence of corrupt politicians, but just as devastating is the prevelance of

    • -- 1-- low information voters who vote on celebrity and name recognition (largely the problem on the left)
    • -- 2-- apathetic citizens who say "Oh I am apolitical" as if it were a virtue (largely the problem on the right)


    The guys on the left... can't identify the secretary of state but can tell you all about Kim Kardashian's marriage. Probably hopeless. I see no way to get them to use critical thinking skills. They will continue to bring us public officials like Anthony Wiener.

    The ones on the right... mistakenly think their "apolitical" stature is a virtue instead of admission they're abdicating decision-making to others. They let others do the heavy lifting, preferring not to degrade themselves by involving themselves with something as tawdry as having a positive affect on politics. They will complain that things are not as they should be, but they refuse to make a difference. [They might miss an episode of Duck Dynasty.]

    I'm running into a lot of the second type in the political campaign I'm working
    Frankly the fact that I don't choke the life out of them is a testament to a level of patience I never knew I possessed. Sure guys, sit it out on the sidelines. Guys on the left may be misguided at best and evil at worst, but they tend to be passionate and will show up to fight for their cause.

    Those who don't pick up an oar have no business bitching about where the boat goes.

    That should be carved on the the headstone of the average conservative.
    -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. --

  7. #7
    I see that on twitter all the time....people who talk a bit talk, but run and hide (by blocking me and others) when called out to do something.

    Read this article:
    Coincidence Theorists Versus Conspiracy Theorists | Dave Hodges – The Common Sense Show

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    I see that on twitter all the time....people who talk a bit talk, but run and hide (by blocking me and others) when called out to do something.

    Read this article:
    Coincidence Theorists Versus Conspiracy Theorists | Dave Hodges – The Common Sense Show
    LOL. Yep. Other day I posted this blog post (my own) in a conservative group on FB: Right Wing, I’m talking to YOU. Get off your butts, or shut up. | Rob Jones for President

    Basically I ripped rightwingers who talk-but-don't-DO a new backside. The first response was a guy who may or may not have realized I was the author, and his response included something about "this asshole is not what we need"... "needs to STFU"... "sounds like someone on the left", bla-bla-bla.

    I asked him directly... besides bitching about things on Facebook, what was he DOING to have a positive affect on things. He called me more names and said I shouldnt post things if I wasnt prepared to defend them. I explained that's what I was doing, and repeated my question about his ACTIONS to change things.

    The third time I asked him, he finally gave an answer that included "I know several RW politicians and radio hosts".

    I pointed out that such activity MUST be exhausting.

    Suddenly all his posts disappeared. No, he didnt remove them... I'd just been blocked. Oops.
    -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. --

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by robjones View Post
    Some of the issue is associated with voter fraud perpetuating the existence of corrupt politicians, but just as devastating is the prevelance of

    • -- 1-- low information voters who vote on celebrity and name recognition (largely the problem on the left)
    • -- 2-- apathetic citizens who say "Oh I am apolitical" as if it were a virtue (largely the problem on the right)


    The guys on the left... can't identify the secretary of state but can tell you all about Kim Kardashian's marriage. Probably hopeless. I see no way to get them to use critical thinking skills. They will continue to bring us public officials like Anthony Wiener.

    The ones on the right... mistakenly think their "apolitical" stature is a virtue instead of admission they're abdicating decision-making to others. They let others do the heavy lifting, preferring not to degrade themselves by involving themselves with something as tawdry as having a positive affect on politics. They will complain that things are not as they should be, but they refuse to make a difference. [They might miss an episode of Duck Dynasty.]

    I'm running into a lot of the second type in the political campaign I'm working
    Frankly the fact that I don't choke the life out of them is a testament to a level of patience I never knew I possessed. Sure guys, sit it out on the sidelines. Guys on the left may be misguided at best and evil at worst, but they tend to be passionate and will show up to fight for their cause.

    Those who don't pick up an oar have no business bitching about where the boat goes.

    That should be carved on the the headstone of the average conservative.
    I was thinking like this when I was 30 years old, taking side for my political believes. Fortunately, today I am old enough not to fall in this game anymore, because it doesn't change the fundamental core of the problem. The problem are parts of the system to reform, not political parties like our politicians tend to argue about.

    Now the meaning to cast a vote lost its importance, because politicians do not keep their promises, and most of the time what the people do is giving "carte blanche" so politicians do whatever they want even if it isn't in the people interests. For example, lobbyists ($30 billions in 2011), Laws written by corporations for lobbyists, national think tanks, international think tanks, etc In fact the system gives the illusion that our vote has an importance, which isn't if you think out of the box. Everything is already decided, the truth is that people's vote is just a kind of rubber stamp.

    And to be clear, I am not talking only about the US, in France it is the same kind of blueprint.
    I will quote Etienne Chouard: "Stop Voting", and read his reasoning, because he is a very interesting intellectual person. Plan C if you want to translate, you can get an idea.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

    Voltaire


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •