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Thread: Economic Crisis in Greece - Financial Crisis

  1. #61
    He is just smart enough to say and do what he is told to say and do by Soros and other rich liberals.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    He is just smart enough to say and do what he is told to say and do by Soros and other rich liberals.
    The big issue is that Americans don't want any spending cuts and want someone else to pay for the spending. This really isn't any different than the attitude of the Greeks and other PIIGS.

    According to a Harris Poll, Americans only favor cutting foreign aid and subsidies to Business.

    The Harris Poll first asked these questions thirty-two years ago, in 1980, towards the end of Jimmy Carter's presidency. At that time substantially more people wanted to cut all these areas of government spending than do so today. For example 23% wanted to cut Social Security payments (compared to 12% now), 65% wanted to cut spending on food stamps (compared to 43% now), and 59% wanted to cut Federal highway financing (compared to 25% now). In spite of the current concern about the size of the budget deficit, far fewer people today want to cut specific government programs.
    Read more: Harris Interactive: Harris Polls > Cutting Government Spending May Be Popular But Majorities Of The Public Oppose Cuts In Many Big Ticket Items In The Budget

    September 2011 Gallup Poll finds that 66 percent of Americans are in favor of increasing income taxes on individuals earning at least $200,000 and families earning at least $250,000. And the same poll showed 70 percent of Americans approve of increasing taxes on some corporations.
    “The problem with with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

    Margaret Thatcher: Free Society Speech (1975)


  3. #63
    Actually, you find that the republicans, especially those identified as tea party, want to stop a lot of government spending and no new taxes, etc.
    Among the democrats most want to tax, tax and no cutting of spending. These are mostly people who really benefit from the welfare program.

    47% of American taxpayers pay NO tax!
    Now within that figure are people like me and my wife. Retired, etc. etc.
    Within that figure are all the people who are on welfare, out of work, etc.

    As of April 1st, coming up, the USA will be number one in the taxation of corporations. % will then be the highest in the USA of all other countries.

    Now when we get into people who pay little tax on their millions of income, that is a whole new can of worms.
    Because to tax those people (like Romney, Buffett, etal) on their dividens (capital gains) means that the tax will also fall on a lot of retired people who rely on the interest, etc. (like us)

    Now I remember, and I paid along with everyone else, the surtax that was imposed for like 2 years back in Lyndon Johnson's time as president.
    This was imposed to help offset the cost of the Vietnam war.
    This can be done again if all American taxpayers paid taxes.
    But only, imho, if the AMT is eliminated.

    You get the gist here, and that is there are so many scenarios, so many things happening, has happened and will happen, when it comes to cleaning up the monetary mess the USG is in.

    (one minor thing that irks me...the central bank buys debt of the USG. WHY? And if the central bank would actually clear up its books? They could eliminate in one swipe of the pen all that debt of the USG they are holding and that would wipe our about 5 trillion dollars of the debt of the USG. Again, something I could expound on for quite some time)

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Actually, you find that the republicans, especially those identified as tea party, want to stop a lot of government spending and no new taxes, etc.
    This is true. From the Harris Poll:

    Republicans are much more likely to favor cutting federal welfare spending (72% compared to 36%), food stamps (61% vs. 28%), pollution control (59% vs. 21%), federal job training programs (47% vs. 18%), health care (37% vs. 10%) and federal aid to education (35% vs. 9%)

    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Among the democrats most want to tax, tax and no cutting of spending. These are mostly people who really benefit from the welfare program.
    “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville


    The Roman Republic didn't last long when the Romans found out that they could vote themselves "Bread and Circuses"

    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    47% of American taxpayers pay NO tax!
    Now within that figure are people like me and my wife. Retired, etc. etc.
    Within that figure are all the people who are on welfare, out of work, etc.
    I think the best solution is to have a flat tax with no deductions. We are in the position we are today due to the progressive income tax and tax deductions. The guy in the middle is getting squeezed by the poor and super rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Now when we get into people who pay little tax on their millions of income, that is a whole new can of worms.
    Because to tax those people (like Romney, Buffett, etal) on their dividens (capital gains) means that the tax will also fall on a lot of retired people who rely on the interest, etc. (like us)
    If everyone payed the same low tax rate of 15%, this won't be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    You get the gist here, and that is there are so many scenarios, so many things happening, has happened and will happen, when it comes to cleaning up the monetary mess the USG is in.

    The only solution is to cut spending so that the U.S. lives within it means. Then we can have a national dialogue of what exactly is the responsiblity of government.

    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    (one minor thing that irks me...the central bank buys debt of the USG. WHY? And if the central bank would actually clear up its books? They could eliminate in one swipe of the pen all that debt of the USG they are holding and that would wipe our about 5 trillion dollars of the debt of the USG. Again, something I could expound on for quite some time)
    The day that the FED writes off the $5 trillion is the death of the dollar. At least we maintain the facade that the money is only borrowed and nor printed.

    I don't think that even if Obama is defeated in the 2012 election, the Republicans have the will to bring deficit spending under control. More likely we will inflate ourselves out of the national debt and hope that we can bring inflation under control afterwards.

  5. #65
    Okay, this I know from my dad, uncles, and more in the family.
    Plus so many others of my dad's generation.

    Prior to world war two, there was no welfare.
    Instead the was the CCC, Civilian Conservation Corp.
    Government paid those out of work, but only for doing work.
    Like roads, clearing beaches, etc.

    So, we can do this again.
    Eliminate all welfare!
    Eliminate all SSI and SSD (social security disablity, much misused today by too many people).
    And then, say you want money, food, housing?
    Work for it!
    Clean up our beaches, build roads, plant trees, and more.

    Then there is more I could say about social security, and health plans.
    Both are good programs, but need serious fixing.

    Finally, why invest in green companies and schemes?
    Why help out banks, finiance companies, auto companies, unions, etc?
    Let the freaking market decide who stays and who goes!

  6. #66
    You guys will never become good socialists or progressives.

    We will never get rid of the welfare fraud until someone with very large gonads gets elected. It has become institutionalized and is a major vehicle for redistribution of wealth.

    The correct way of stating the issue with the 46% who pay no taxes is that "46% pay no Federal income taxes." The liberals quickly point out that any of the 46% who are working do pay social security and medicare taxes. That is how they try to dispel that as a lie. If you state it correctly, it cannot be called a lie. It wasn't too many years ago when everyone paid a minimum Federal income tax. We need to go back to that, but no one in Washington is willing to raise taxes on the 46% of the population who do not pay any Federal income taxes. It would be political suicide to propose that.

    My wife's aunt thinks that this country will never become like Greece. I think we have already surpassed it in many ways. We just have not yet lowered the retirement age to 50.

    She also thinks that we will never see rioting in the streets in this country. Actually, we are just one step away from it. All that it takes is an economic collapse. People will riot in the streets when they are hungry. Yesterday I read that the Fed bought 60% of our debt in 2011 in order to prop up the dollar. That in itself is scary because, 1) it is not a gift or donation and we have to pay it back with interest, and 2) it shows that other countries are no longer willing to finance our spending habits. Neither of these issues are being addressed by the media.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  7. #67
    Something to think about this weekend...

    Our president and all the lefties going crazy because oil companies are making so much money.
    Want to stop subsidies, raise taxes, and more on the oil companies who are making obscene profits.

    Yes, why not APPLE!
    Making about $1 billion a day, way more than any oil company!
    Stop their subsidies and raise their taxes!!!!!

    Or Google, or MSN, etc?

    Why just pick on oil companies?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Okay, this I know from my dad, uncles, and more in the family.
    Plus so many others of my dad's generation.

    Prior to world war two, there was no welfare.
    Instead the was the CCC, Civilian Conservation Corp.
    Government paid those out of work, but only for doing work.
    Like roads, clearing beaches, etc.

    So, we can do this again.
    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Let the freaking market decide who stays and who goes!
    The US government needs to stay out of the business of creating make-work jobs. Communism doesn't work. Roosevelt's make-work programs extended the Great Depression. Whereas, Reagan's use of supply-side economics got the US out of thw worst recession since the Great Depression: The double dip of 1980 & 81-82.

    Jimmy Carter tried the same thing and it was epic fail:

    Economic Recovery Program - Message to the Congress.
    January 31, 1977

    To the Congress of the United States:

    I am proposing to you today a two, year $31.2 billion economic recovery package, whose budgetary costs will be divided almost equally between fiscal years 1977 and 1978 (Table 1). The main components of the program are

    --an increase of $4 billion in authorizations for local public works;

    --an expansion of public service employment by 415,000 jobs;

    --an expansion of training and youth programs under the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act (CETA) by 346,000 positions;

    --an increase in the countercyclical revenue sharing program designed to pay out an additional $1 billion a year at current rates of unemployment;


    --a $4 billion program of tax reform and simplification for individuals, through an increase in the standard deduction;


    --individual tax rebates, and payments to Social Security, Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Railroad Retirement beneficiaries,' which will total $11.4 billion;

    --an optional credit against income taxes equal to 4 percent of payroll taxes or an additional 2 percent investment tax credit for businesses.
    Read more at the American Presidency Project: Jimmy Carter: Economic Recovery Program - Message to the Congress. Jimmy Carter: Economic Recovery Program - Message to the Congress.

    I think that we have a big problem in this country with illegal immigration. There's as many as 20 million illegals plus 1.2 million+ legal immigrants coming into the US per year. It doesn't make sense to throw money on work programs when there are this many illegals employed. The immigration quotas should be set to the unemployment rate and millions of illegals would deport themselves if their welfare checks dried up.

    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Eliminate all welfare!
    Easy enough. Shut the government down!

    Let's see what happens to the Ryan Budget. (Barry Obama's budget was defeated 414-0 in the House.) Though, Reid will kill it in the Senate. The Republicans need to shut the government down until a budget gets passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Finally, why invest in green companies and schemes?
    Why help out banks, finiance companies, auto companies, unions, etc?
    Lou Dobbs on Robert Riech "No White Construction Workers"



    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    The correct way of stating the issue with the 46% who pay no taxes is that "46% pay no Federal income taxes." The liberals quickly point out that any of the 46% who are working do pay social security and medicare taxes. That is how they try to dispel that as a lie. If you state it correctly, it cannot be called a lie. It wasn't too many years ago when everyone paid a minimum Federal income tax.
    Many of the people that pay no Federal taxes actually get around $4,000 back on their tax refund using the earned income credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    My wife's aunt thinks that this country will never become like Greece. I think we have already surpassed it in many ways. We just have not yet lowered the retirement age to 50.

    She also thinks that we will never see rioting in the streets in this country. Actually, we are just one step away from it. All that it takes is an economic collapse. People will riot in the streets when they are hungry.
    This could turn us into Greece: Another $17 trillion surprise found in Obamacare - Yahoo! News

    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    Yesterday I read that the Fed bought 60% of our debt in 2011 in order to prop up the dollar. That in itself is scary because, 1) it is not a gift or donation and we have to pay it back with interest, and 2) it shows that other countries are no longer willing to finance our spending habits. Neither of these issues are being addressed by the media.
    The federal government already owes $15 trillion in debt, including $8 trillion in funds borrowed since Democrats took control of Congress in 2006 and during Obama’s term.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Why just pick on oil companies?
    Because the oil companies make an easy target. Oil companies are a Liberal's boogieman, especially when the real goal is to distract people from the real issues. The government still makes more money in taxes per gallon of gasoline than the oil companies make in profits. Someone needs to turn the table on the government on this. Also, if the oil company profits go down, so does a major sector of the stock market, while prices will rise further at the pumps.

    Why not a charge a windfall tax on attorneys who file class action suits and make tens of million of dollars, while each class participant gets $10? Oh, that's right. Trial attorneys are big supporters of Democrats.

    Why not go after the Hollywood crowd? Is is fair to literally make $20 million or more for spending a few months making a movie? Is is fair for these people to live in palatial estates? Oh, that's right. The Hollywood geeks are big supporters of Democrats.

    Why not treat unions like any other special interest group, such as pharmaceutical companies. Unions are in fact a business with special interests just like any major corporation. Oh, that's right. Unions are big supporters of Democrats.

    The current situation would be viewed much differently today by an overwhelming number of Americans if everyone had to take an economic class in order to graduate from high school. Every attempt to do that over the years has been blocked by Democrats. I wonder why?
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  10. #70
    Factoid:
    The major oil companies have paid more in taxes than they have made in profit.
    Year after year after year.

    The subsidies being talked about (and voted down, messing with Obama's frail ego)?
    Go mostly to the small independent oil and gas companies.
    Does not really affect the big companies at all.

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