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Thread: Lois Lerner: Top IRS official will invoke Fifth Amendment in congressional hearings

  1. #1

    Lois Lerner: Top IRS official will invoke Fifth Amendment in congressional hearings

    You know the IRS scandal where we've been assured no laws were broken?

    Lois Lerner: Top IRS official will invoke the Fifth Amendment in congressional hearing about tea party targeting program | Mail Online

    If no laws were broken, why would the administrator in charge of the group feel a need to plead the fifth. How could she be incriminated if no laws were broken?
    -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. --

  2. #2
    Because she lawyered up fast as soon as this broke.
    Why the whole subpoena process needs to be upgraded so that the committee overseeing any investigation can subpoena a whole bunch of people at the outset, including john doe subpoenas.

    But Issa did subpoena her and thus, she will have to in congress and publicly not answer questions and plead the fifth.
    Which is I doubt what she wanted when she said she would plead the fifth if asked to testify.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by robjones View Post
    You know the IRS scandal where we've been assured no laws were broken?

    Lois Lerner: Top IRS official will invoke the Fifth Amendment in congressional hearing about tea party targeting program | Mail Online

    If no laws were broken, why would the administrator in charge of the group feel a need to plead the fifth. How could she be incriminated if no laws were broken?
    Exactly. Pleading the 5th means you won't speak for fear of self incrimination. It implicitly means you feel laws may have been broken. The problem here is, when you work for the government, the same 5th amendment prevents management (congress) from understanding and dealing with failures in the organization.

    I've said this many times before, but I'll say it again. I'm all for government workers being able to use the 5th amendment to protect themselves, as any citizen might, but given that refusing to supply information to your superiors in an employment relationship is gross insubordination, they should also be fired on the spot, bypassing any union regulations that make the normal process of firing a government employee take a decade.

  4. #4
    The operative part in "pleading the fifth" is a witness cannot "be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself". The statement from her attorney says Lerner 'has not committed any crime or made any misrepresentation,' ... 'but under the circumstances she has no choice but to take this course.'

    The fifth ONLY prevents them from compelling her to give testimony that would incriminate HERSELF. If she didnt commit any crime, she cannot incriminate herself. If his statement is true, his client is pleading the fifth for a cause not available. The fifth is not there to protect one from making their boss or employees look bad. Hell that's why we subpoena people to testify in the first place.
    -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. --

  5. #5
    Pretty much every anti-discrimination statute ever passed include prohibitions against singling out people for mistreatment or grouping people for mistreatment based on their "race, CREED, or color".

    What do they think "creed" means?
    It's clear they singled out people of a single belief system, people of the same creed.

    Yet they say, "hey, we know they singled out conservatives for mistreatment, but there is no proof their was a political motivation".

    If you want to test whether it qualifies... substitute color and see if they'd argue that even if the IRS fast-tracked applications from white groups and went 24 months without passing any apps for black groups, and in fact had a special unit to handle black groups... would they argue there was no proof of racial motivation?

    Is there really a need for a memo or tape recording that includes slurs against those who were discriminated against here? If this same act were done to blacks... stonewalling their applications while fast-tracking whites, the simple fact that it happened would be perfectly acceptable prima facia evidence that the actions were illegal discrimination. The same test should be operative here.
    -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. --

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by robjones View Post
    The operative part in "pleading the fifth" is a witness cannot "be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself". The statement from her attorney says Lerner 'has not committed any crime or made any misrepresentation,' ... 'but under the circumstances she has no choice but to take this course.'

    The fifth ONLY prevents them from compelling her to give testimony that would incriminate HERSELF. If she didnt commit any crime, she cannot incriminate herself. If his statement is true, his client is pleading the fifth for a cause not available. The fifth is not there to protect one from making their boss or employees look bad. Hell that's why we subpoena people to testify in the first place.
    Lois Lerner may be pleading the 5th for other reasons. People that know too much end up like Vince Foster or others on the Clinton Body Count

  7. #7
    If she does not give up any information, she would be viewed as a loyal supporter of the Obama crime syndicate.

    Pleading the 5th can be misused to avoid providing testimony. It all depends upon how the questions are phrased.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  8. #8
    The sum total of Lois Lerner's testimony: "I have not broken any laws, I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations and I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. And while I would very much like to answer the committee’s questions today, I have been advised by my counsel not to."

    Translation: "I will not admit that I have done anything wrong and I will not answer questions because that will prove that I am lying."

    I watched the testimony, but she never actually said the was taking the 5th. I don't believe you have to right to refuse to answer questions posed by a Congressional committee unless you state that you are taking the 5th, which is an admission of culpability. To refuse to answer puts her at risk of a Contempt of Congress charge. She just said she is not answering because her attorneys advised her to not answer questions. Stating that she did nothing wrong and taking the 5th are in direct conflict.

    The idiots in Congress let her get away with that and the usual suspects on the Democrat side provided support.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    The sum total of Lois Lerner's testimony: "I have not broken any laws, I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations and I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. And while I would very much like to answer the committee’s questions today, I have been advised by my counsel not to."
    The IRS is in cover-up mode.

    In a startling exchange Wednesday during the IRS hearings before the House Oversight and Reform Committee, America learned that the IRS knew in May of 2012 that its employees were targeting conservative organizations
    IRS internal Investigation Ended 6 Months Before Election, Hidden From Congress

    Michelle Obama may have dated IRS inspector general in law school
    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/22/mi...#ixzz2U7IBQV21

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    She just said she is not answering because her attorneys advised her to not answer questions.
    Breitbart news is reporting that Lois Lerner's attorney is from Zuckerman Spaeder, a law firm with deep ties to the Obama Administration.

    Some of the Obama Adminstration ties to Zuckerman Spaeder include:

    • Kathryn Ruemmler, the White House Counsel, is a former associate at Zuckerman Spaeder.
    • Leslie Kiernan, a partner at Zuckerman, is the Deputy White House Counsel and works for Ruemmler.
    • Norman Eisen, a partner at the firm, was Obama’s “Ethics Czar” in the White House. Eisen attended Harvard Law School with Obama and was appointed by Obama to be Ambassador to the Czech Republic.
    • Elizabeth Taylor, a partner at Zuckerman, is the principal deputy associate attorney general at DOJ. Taylor attends the Daily Senior Management Meeting with the Attorney General.
    • Ronald Welch, a partner at the firm, was the Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs at DOJ until 2012.
    • William Schultz, a partner at the firm, is General Counsel at the Department of Health and Human Services.
    • Lisa Barclay, a partner at the firm, is the Chief of Staff at the Food and Drug Administration.

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