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Thread: Will Obama allow terror to become an acceptable form of international communication?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by elbandelero View Post
    On the other hand, if you look at the rhetoric employed by the British or South African governments before they sat down and started to negotiate with the IRA or the ANC it is the same as being used now to describe Hamas.
    What we're forgetting here is that the IRA and ANC had goals different from that of the Hamas.

    Their goals were nationalistic - they wanted to create a seperate nation and wanted better laws.

    The Hamas on the other hand has more of a Mujahideen policy and aims at destroying the state of Israel.

    Plus, the whole Palestine conflict is being projected as battle of the Muslims versus the others by the Hamas - this is entirely different from what happened in Northern Ireland and South Africa.

    The Hamas ideology will continue to grow at a faster pace when development comes to Palestine with Hamas in power.

    Remember that Saudi Arabia is a country with a huge GDP and PCI, but it still continues to support and harbor Islamic terrorism.

    Same goes with other states which sponsor Islamic terrorism - its different from nationalistic terrorism - the likes of which the world has seen before.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by elbandelero View Post
    Yes, I agree when it comes to Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, however the Gaza strip and West Bank are very different, they have not been allowed to develop economically, they do not have the ability to travel, and they are only exposed to a single voice, ie their local warlords.
    But in order to free them as a people, we cannot just watch terror groups controlling them.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post

    It's time to stop rewarding terrorism and start demanding that the Muslim people take responsibility for the actions of their governments.

    It's time? What have we been doing for the past eight years? We've not been rewarding terrorists, we've been kicking their asses. However, maintaining an ultra hardass policy against terrorism is not without its downsides.

    I see Obama's presidency as a good opportunity to play good cop / bad cop. We've seen eight years of bad cop, where Bush really didn't care what you thought about how he went about things, he was going to do things his way to get the result he wanted. I think we needed that approach but we don't need it indefinitely. It may be time for at least a perception that America is more open to talk to enemies instead of just blowing them up or holding them in prison without trial.

    And I don't think Obama is going to be a pushover. Even if he offers a more kinder, gentler, diplomatic face than the world has seen from us for the last eight years, it doesn't mean he's going to be an appeaser.

    I just don't see why Obama scares the hell out of some people. I don't think the fear is warranted. Remember who was the first for unilateral unmanned raids into Pakistan to get high value terrorist targets?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    Thanks Ash and Will, and I do agree. I believe that Hillary Clinton will have her hands full doing cosmetic damage control. I too do not have any faith that Obama will do anything efficient to discourage terror and his actions will enable those who were afraid of the Bush administration, to come back to the forefront with their attempts to place the world in fear.
    A lot of this is evidenced by the Israelis and Palestinians conflict/war at the moment. On one hand HamAss knows that no one is going to condemn them, and Israel knows that Bush is now unable to tell them to cool it, and I don't think Obama fully knows how.

    Not withstanding, I do appreciate Israel's approach to going on the offensive for a change. Its this type of foreign policy that has kept the US safe since 9/11. I'm just hopeful that at the very least the people that Obama has surrounded himself with will be intelligent to recognize the need to "stay the course" with regards to the war on terror.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by LogicFlux View Post
    I just don't see why Obama scares the hell out of some people. I don't think the fear is warranted. Remember who was the first for unilateral unmanned raids into Pakistan to get high value terrorist targets?
    I think that was before his handlers informed him that Pakistan was one of our allies.

    Perhaps he got Pakistan and Afghanistan confused. After all, Bill Clinton's failed approach was to send unmanned missiles into Afghanistan.
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  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post
    I think that was before his handlers informed him that Pakistan was one of our allies.
    Umm. But after he suggested it publicly the Bush administration started doing just that, to one of our allies. Obama was scolded by many on both sides for suggesting it and yet it became part of our policy not too long after.

    And I'm pretty sure Obama knows who our allies and our enemies are. Throughout the campaign he demonstrated an ability to grasp world and domesitc issues and an ability to speak on them intelligently. For example I couldn't imagine Obama being asked the name of the leader of Pakistan and not knowing it. Has that happened to any other incoming Presidents before?

    You may not agree with his policies but to accuse him of being ignorant is retarded.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by LogicFlux View Post
    You may not agree with his policies but to accuse him of being ignorant is retarded.
    The guy who wants to be President of the 58 states for the next 10 years?
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  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post
    The guy who wants to be President of the 58 states for the next 10 years?
    I knew you'd bring that up. Because you really believe that he doesn't know there's 50 states and that it wasn't a mere slip up that we're all capable of if the cameras and mics were trained on us 24/7 and we got little sleep while traveling across the country.

    But back in reality, Bush's flub on Musharraf wasn't a slip up that could happen to anyone. He didn't simply misspeak and say something that any reasonable person couldn't believe he actually believed; like when he said he wanted to put food on my family I didn't run out and buy a family pack of bibs, because I knew it was just an unfortunate and unintentional disorganization of words. Not knowing Musharraf's name was not that kind of a slip up. He was given time and couldn't come up with it. He settled for calling him the general.

    I'm not a Bush hater. To be honest I haven't figured out where I stand on Bush. He's an utter disaster in some ways and a hero in others. But one thing I realized that I did long for was to have a president that could speak on the subjects in a way that makes me feel reassured. When Bush talks about stuff I'm never really sure that he fully grasps it. It might just be his lack of talent for articulation, but at any rate, when I listen to Obama I feel like this guy really understands the subject matter and probably wouldn't have trouble figuring out tough problems as they are given to him. His academic background sort of reinforces this.

    Calling Obama dumb or ignorant is akin to fighting over a ball on a schoolyard with another 8 year old and when they win by struggling the ball away from you, you call them stupid or ugly or make fun of their mom, even if you sit next to them so you can cheat off of them, you have a crush on them because they're a girl and their mom is your mom's boss.

  9. So far Obama has been saying simply what people want to hear, but I think (ok.. hope) he'll do the right thing once in office.

  10. Obama was chosen by the liberal elite because he was young, black, good looking, and had no embarrassing past like John Kerry. He was then pushed onto the Democratic rank and file who were more than willing to support Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriends wife for the Presidency.

    Obama has zero qualifications for the job, no matter how pretty he may be. Barack was elected to Congress only because 7 of 9 was going through a nasty divorce and Mike Ditka's wife wouldn't let him run.

    Remember, this is the goofball who sat in church for years without managing to actually hear and understand what his minister was preaching to him.

    This is the fellow who received a discount of several hundred thousand dollars on his home purchase without wondering why it might have happened -- and that's the best case scenario for what happened.

    This is the fellow who launched his political career at a friends house, without seeming to notice that his friend was a member of The Weather Underground. And now we're paying this jerk to manage the same people and buildings that his friend once bombed.

    Clearly, this fellow is either stick dumb or he's significantly less honest than Richard M. Nixon.
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    I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

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