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Thread: Panda rolled out internationally on April 11 2011... AND IT SUCKS!

  1. #31
    Franc Tireur is offline Senior Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowadawg View Post
    Fascism?
    I don't remember Hitler shutting down all the small businesses.
    And remember, to the very end, there was competition in Germany to build tanks, guns, planes, etc.
    Same thing in the birthplace of fascism. Italy.

    Really, corporations ruling the earth and our lives?
    That would be closer to pure capitalism.
    Wherein there are the corporations earning profit, the workers getting a wage.
    Perhaps the definition of fascism will help you more to understand what I meant:
    A political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocraticgovernment headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
    When you said: "That would be closer to pure capitalism." I will answer that it is not because pure capitalism is when you have almost no government similar to the Libetarian philosophy.

    What I am talking about is the predatory capitalism, but there are many types of capitalism:


    Anarcho-capitalism
    Main article: Anarcho-capitalism
    See also: Free-market anarchism
    Anarcho-capitalism is a libertarian and individualist anarchist political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state and the elevation of the sovereign individual in a free market. In an anarcho-capitalist society, law enforcement, courts, and all other security services would be provided by voluntarily-funded competitors such as dispute resolution organisations and private defense agencies rather than through taxation, and money would be privately and competitively provided in an open market.

    Mercantilism
    Main article: Mercantilism
    See also: Protectionism
    A nationalist-oriented form of early capitalism that uses the state to advance national business interests abroad, and holds that the wealth of a nation is increased through a positive balance of trade with other nations.

    Free-market capitalism
    Main article: Free market
    See also: Laissez-faire
    Free market capitalism consists of a free-price system where supply and demand are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by the government. Productive enterprises are privately-owned, and the role of the state is limited to protecting property rights.

    Social market economy
    Main article: Social market
    A social market economy is a nominally free-market system where government intervention in price formation is kept to a minimum, but the state provides for moderate to extensive provision of social security, unemployment benefits and recognition of labor rights through national collective bargaining schemes. The social market is based on private ownership of businesses.

    State capitalism
    Main article: State capitalism
    State capitalism consists of state-ownership of profit-seeking enterprises that operate in a capitalist manner in a market economy: examples of this include corporatized government agencies or partial ownership of shares in publicly-listed firms by the state. State capitalism is also used to refer to an economy consisting of mainly private enterprises that are subjected to comprehensive national economic planning by the government, where the state intervenes in the economy to protect specific capitalist businesses. Many anti-USSR socialists, as well as many anarchists, argue that the Soviet Union was never socialist, but rather state capitalist, since the state owned all the means of production and functioned as an enormous corporation, and exploited the working class as such.

    Corporate capitalism
    Main article: Corporate capitalism
    See also: State monopoly capitalism
    Corporate capitalism is a free or mixed market characterized by the dominance of hierarchical, bureaucratic corporations, which are legally required to pursue profit. State monopoly capitalism refers to a form of corporate capitalism where the state is used to benefit, protect from competition and promote the interests of dominant or established corporations.

    Mixed economy
    Main article: Mixed economy
    A largely market-based economy consisting of both public ownership and private ownership of the means of production. In practice, a mixed economy will be heavily slanted toward one extreme; most capitalist economies are defined as "mixed economies" to some degree and are characterized by the dominance of private ownership.

    Other

    Other variants of capitalism include:


    Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  2. #32
    memenode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    Perhaps the definition of fascism will help you more to understand what I meant:

    A political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocraticgovernment headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
    A definition I often see used is "a merger of corporate and state power", and fascism is used interchangeably with corporatism. In a nutshell this mostly fits the above definition despite there not necessarily being a dictatorial leader. Government diverts "public funds" to corporate protection (bail outs are a great example), as well as accept corporate funds in exchange for making laws that fit corporate interests. Government is then nothing but another corporation, but even less accountable to the market than the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    When you said: "That would be closer to pure capitalism." I will answer that it is not because pure capitalism is when you have almost no government similar to the Libetarian philosophy.

    What I am talking about is the predatory capitalism, but there are many types of capitalism:

    Anarcho-capitalism
    Main article: Anarcho-capitalism
    See also: Free-market anarchism
    Anarcho-capitalism is a libertarian and individualist anarchist political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state and the elevation of the sovereign individual in a free market. In an anarcho-capitalist society, law enforcement, courts, and all other security services would be provided by voluntarily-funded competitors such as dispute resolution organisations and private defense agencies rather than through taxation, and money would be privately and competitively provided in an open market.
    That would be me.

    ---------- Post added at 13:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post
    It's not an issue of either-or, it's an issue of "the right tool for the right job." Some markets are best reached by branding, others by advertising, others by social media, others by direct sales, etc...

    If your competitors are using the right tools and you are using the wrong tools, you can sell more than them and still put yourself out of business due to an unsustainable cost of sales.

    Sure it might, for some niches.
    Fair enough. I think we might disagree only on what tools might be right for the job and in what niches might a combined strategy work. Where you might see it not working I might have a nagging feeling that an unproven assumption is being made. Going back to those examples I linked, many would assume it wouldn't work in these niches, but it apparently does.

    I'd admit though that what's in big part driving this nagging feeling is a personal agenda, and a value system, because I don't want to be just a variable in a system automatically adapting and responding to certain conditions. I want to make a difference. Otherwise I kinda just rot inside. Not everyone has to be like this, but it does mean I'll be more inclined to point the light in directions many might not think of looking at or want to look at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post
    Google has killed many businesses and will kill many more. The secret isn't to stay in the same business and market differently -- the solution is to get into a different business. Going out of business is just part of the natural progress of a free market economy.
    Alright. I still hope Google can be restrained somehow (without government involvement). I still have a feeling social media is quite underestimated. Search may be the best way for some customers to reach you, but increasing personalization through social media might lead to there being personalized indexes for each user instead of one big index. To even get into this search index what you are offering might have to be "liked" by that user or otherwise indicated as valuable or of interest.

    That's just one potential scenario though.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by memenode View Post
    ... I don't want to be just a variable in a system automatically adapting and responding to certain conditions.
    I swim in the market forces like a fish swims in the ocean.

    Quote Originally Posted by memenode View Post
    Search may be the best way for some customers to reach you, but increasing personalization through social media might lead to there being personalized indexes for each user instead of one big index.
    And the world leader in personalization technology is... Google.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post
    I swim in the market forces like a fish swims in the ocean.
    That's great. I'm not against that (as an ancap especially), but everyone contributes something to those market forces, and this can be done in various creative ways that don't always come down to pure adaptation. Sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow. I want to lead more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post
    And the world leader in personalization technology is... Google.
    Right, but Facebook is pretty good too, though it doesn't really matter which. What matters is which paradigm is in effect and what conditions it leaves us with.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post
    Governments like big businesses, because they are easier to deal with. Small businesses are uncomfortable for governments, because they are so messy and difficult to manage. Similarly, Google likes big businesses (brands) because it feels safe for Google to direct searchers to well known brands. I lost lots of rankings in Panda II to Microsoft and CNet.

    I'm in a search-centric business -- building web sites to help people solve problems. I either learn to live with higher costs, lower profits, and thinner margins or I find a new business to be in. Maybe I'll do affiliate sites and sell people crap they don't need. Maybe I'll do humor sites and help people forget that the economy is going to crap. Or maybe I'll buy a small hotel and run that for awhile.
    Will, did the update really put your whole business model in doubt? I think it's still a viable strategy, although with less traffic and some required tweaks in the linkbuilding process.

    I'm now noticing that my emd's lost many of the serps, up to the point that it's not worth chasing emds and building sites on them any more. I think it pays to focus on bigger sites now and making them even bigger, also gotta be more precise about picking niches and topics. Overall link building can benefit a lot now from including more social media, getting some strong twitter and facebook links etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by memenode View Post
    That's great. I'm not against that (as an ancap especially), but everyone contributes something to those market forces, and this can be done in various creative ways that don't always come down to pure adaptation. Sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow. I want to lead more.
    If you have any proactive ideas on that matter I'm sure many webmasters would like to hear, but there really is not much you/we can do to change these things. Fit, adapt and survive to grow stronger, or pick a different business plan to follow - that's how I see it.

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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by memenode View Post
    That's great. I'm not against that (as an ancap especially), but everyone contributes something to those market forces, and this can be done in various creative ways that don't always come down to pure adaptation. Sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow. I want to lead more.
    We're playing out The Fountainhead here. You're Howard Roark, I'm Gail Wynand, and Matt Cutts is Ellsworth Toohey.

    Quote Originally Posted by memenode View Post
    Right, but Facebook is pretty good too, though it doesn't really matter which. What matters is which paradigm is in effect and what conditions it leaves us with.
    Facebook is lousy at selecting relevant ads for me. Worse, when I click that an ad is offensive-- the ad returns in a few days.

    Quote Originally Posted by DomainMagnate View Post
    Will, did the update really put your whole business model in doubt? I think it's still a viable strategy, although with less traffic and some required tweaks in the linkbuilding process.
    The update was no big deal, but I really should diversify -- for more than strictly financial reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by DomainMagnate View Post
    I'm now noticing that my emd's lost many of the serps, up to the point that it's not worth chasing emds and building sites on them any more.
    My EMD's did very well in this latest update -- including lots of new #1's.

    Quote Originally Posted by DomainMagnate View Post
    I think it pays to focus on bigger sites now and making them even bigger, also gotta be more precise about picking niches and topics.
    That sounds like good advice at almost any time.

    Quote Originally Posted by DomainMagnate View Post
    Overall link building can benefit a lot now from including more social media, getting some strong twitter and facebook links etc.
    I've not seen any effects from Twitter or Facebook's nofollow links.
    memenode likes this.
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    memenode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will.Spencer View Post
    We're playing out The Fountainhead here. You're Howard Roark, I'm Gail Wynand, and Matt Cutts is Ellsworth Toohey.
    I like that analogy, both because it seems to fit almost perfectly, and because it indicates you mostly understand where I'm coming from.

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