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Thread: Should Google and Facebook Be Filtering Our Content For Us?

  1. #11
    Hellas's Avatar
    Hellas is offline Very Unusual Member
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    I agree with Daniel. Google should do anything they think its good for them. Their house, their rules. If they change so much that I dont agree with them I will switch to some other search engine. Same applies for Facebook.

  2. #12
    Franc Tireur is offline Senior Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellas View Post
    I agree with Daniel. Google should do anything they think its good for them. Their house, their rules. If they change so much that I dont agree with them I will switch to some other search engine. Same applies for Facebook.
    So for you guys, if Google is destroying any single little and small businesses is ok because they can do what ever they want including, selling people data, banning the pages or sites requested by the governements around the world, using their power to propagate the information they want, etc etc etc

    Guys with all due respect, you are tyranny rubber stampers.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

    Voltaire


  3. #13
    Mafiamaster's Avatar
    Mafiamaster is offline Newbie Net Builder
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    Question, NE. If I come to you and tell you that you have to run your website differently because it's hurting my business, are you going to? If I tell you that you have to lower the prices because, come on, I can't sell my goods for that cheap, are you going to? I mean, it's unfair that you are a better business man than me and are able to get a better deal on the products, so you should hurt your own business to ensure that my small business is okay. I just can't handle it...

    That's what you're asking Google to do. You're asking them to put your interests before their own business interests. And that's not business. They've created a service that makes a shit ton of money for more than just Google. We can be lucky that we get to suck the teet of Google.

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    Franc Tireur is offline Senior Net Builder
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    What kind of conversation can we have with people denying systematically all you have to say by non-sens answers like: "Don't tell Google blah blah blah" I don't ask Google anything beside to be fair and it is far what it is.

    I made a compilation of People talking about google and the problems they have with them, almost all the answers are defending the undefendable.

    Hey people can think what they want, any tyran was first supported by people, right?
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

    Voltaire


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    Mafiamaster's Avatar
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    Dude, you're choosing to give Google the power. If you think Google is a tyrant, don't use it. In my eyes, Google is a phenomenal tool. And if they decide they don't want to index my content, then I need to go in and decide if I want to conform my content to Google or go without Google. I don't care what is fair or isn't fair. There is no fair in business. There's business. And Google has done very well with their business. If you were hurt by it, I am sorry.

  7. #16
    Franc Tireur is offline Senior Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafiamaster View Post
    Dude, you're choosing to give Google the power. If you think Google is a tyrant, don't use it.
    Dude you are making non-sens rhetoric like usual
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

    Voltaire


  8. #17
    memenode's Avatar
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    What isn't fair is trying to control someone else's property for your own interests. If you want to believe that then you also have to believe that someone can also use your own web sites for their interests, whether you like it or not. If you think Google is already doing this, your own logic is making them doing it OK. Cross the line between what belongs to you and what belongs to someone else and you become the last one who should complain.

    Google isn't killing businesses. That is a gross oversimplification. Regardless of Google no business exists in a vacuum. Their survival is completely dependent on the actions of customers in the market, on actions of other businesses, and even on the acts of nature itself. A business has to adapt to these circumstances or die. If a lot of customers suddenly decide not to buy from you would it be fair to tell the government to make a law that force them to buy from you? If another business is offering a better service than you and attracts your customers away from you, would it be OK to send government thugs to threaten and harass that business? If an operator of a directory was sending you traffic by indexing your site, but then one day changed his system to one that sends you less traffic, would it be fair for you to force him to continue sending you that traffic?

    I call what you are doing "tyranny", honestly. It is this idea that it is OK to use the government to control what people do with their own business that is killing freedom, inviting regulations and raising the bar for new businesses, but when you are stuck in that entitlement mentality you fail to see the ripple effects of what you are pushing for. You got so used to the benefits offered by Google's search engine that now you think you have a moral right to them. No, you don't, and never did. It was one business doing something that was favorable to you, and then changing what they were doing, as simple as that. You have to adapt, not whine about it (which wont help you one bit).

    If you think that is tyranny then bad weather is tyranny too. It is so unfair that it rains when I want it to be sunny. It is so unfair that an earthquake hit Japan! It's the same kind of logic, but it's flawed. Something feeling bad doesn't automatically make it "unfair". Things can be both fair and unpleasant. If we could only agree to that we could move on to resolving the unpleasantness instead of going on about how "unfair" it is.

  9. #18
    Franc Tireur is offline Senior Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by memenode View Post
    What isn't fair is trying to control someone else's property for your own interests.
    What a very simplistic philosophy! It just reminds me the story of the Monsanto corporation asking the US government to reliate against my country because we made a law against GMO.

    If you want to believe that then you also have to believe that someone can also use your own web sites for their interests, whether you like it or not. If you think Google is already doing this, your own logic is making them doing it OK. Cross the line between what belongs to you and what belongs to someone else and you become the last one who should complain.
    Your logic is that if you leave your $200,000.00 car with the keys on the dasboard you shouldn't complaint if a thief steal your car, what a morality do you have to defend the thief? Nobody asked someone to steal the car!

    Google isn't killing businesses.
    You keep going to deny what people are experiencing with them, perhaps your own industry is safe for now, perhaps one day Google will kill your business, you never know.

    If an operator of a directory was sending you traffic by indexing your site, but then one day changed his system to one that sends you less traffic, would it be fair for you to force him to continue sending you that traffic?
    Finally a good question. Directories have two purposes, sending traffic or count as a reputable backlink. First all the directories asking annual fees are systematically out of my list, then these days no directories send traffic even the biggest except the niche directories. As far as backlinks, I don't see how they can help you because most directories are permanently penalized by Google. Most site owners have turned their back on this industry and this is why they are trying to sell $300 or more just a link that do not provide juice anymore. I don't even talk about the crowded directories exploited to the last drop.

    I call what you are doing "tyranny", honestly. It is this idea that it is OK to use the government to control what people do with their own business that is killing freedom, inviting regulations and raising the bar for new businesses, but when you are stuck in that entitlement mentality you fail to see the ripple effects of what you are pushing for. You got so used to the benefits offered by Google's search engine that now you think you have a moral right to them. No, you don't, and never did. It was one business doing something that was favorable to you, and then changing what they were doing, as simple as that. You have to adapt, not whine about it (which wont help you one bit).
    You are in total contradiction with what you said, that's pretty funny in my opinion. First of all, I have never seens a corporation game changer like Google. Changing the rules every 4 month, even the governement you are against don't do that. I am for smart regulations, because excess of power is always a tentation for abuses. That's why you have some federal organizations in place, perhaps with the years some lost their integrity but you can understand my point.

    The only companies able to adapt (like you said) are the big corporations with their power money. You probably never run an ecommerce perhaps it is difficult for you to understand, because it is not like a blog selling ads, or site made for adsenses or business service or drop shipping business.

    You have to adapt, not whine about it (which wont help you one bit)
    I though you were libetarian? why in the hell are you tell me what to do? Is that another contradiction of yours?

    If you think that is tyranny then bad weather is tyranny too. It is so unfair that it rains when I want it to be sunny. It is so unfair that an earthquake hit Japan! It's the same kind of logic, but it's flawed. Something feeling bad doesn't automatically make it "unfair". Things can be both fair and unpleasant. If we could only agree to that we could move on to resolving the unpleasantness instead of going on about how "unfair" it is.
    Oh boy you are a piece of work lol

    If I take your reasoning, you don't have to tell a company what to do, if you don't like it, go somewhere else, if you don't like your country, go to another one, if you don't like the planet Earth go to another one oops it is starting to go sideway lol, if you don't like the air you are breathing, don't breave lol see how low minded it could be?

    Why do you think people have made revolution? Because they believed in what they did and fought the tyrans.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

    Voltaire


  10. #19
    memenode's Avatar
    memenode is offline Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    What a very simplistic philosophy! It just reminds me the story of the Monsanto corporation asking the US government to reliate against my country because we made a law against GMO.
    Well, you're supporting asking the US government to effectively retaliate against Google because their business is now less favorable to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    Your logic is that if you leave your $200,000.00 car with the keys on the dasboard you shouldn't complaint if a thief steal your car, what a morality do you have to defend the thief? Nobody asked someone to steal the car!
    No, property is exactly what I'm defending. Google's servers are their property. Your site is yours. Neither of you are obliged to serve each other, but can cooperate if it is in mutual self interest. Stealing would be if Google took your content and put it on their site while you clearly denied Googlebot to do this. You'd have a better case arguing on a specific case by case basis over whether they are doing this or not, than seeking to coerce them to change their entire business direction because of you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    You keep going to deny what people are experiencing with them, perhaps your own industry is safe for now, perhaps one day Google will kill your business, you never know.
    I never once denied what they experience. I deny the idea that their business is in any way Google's responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    Finally a good question. Directories have two purposes, sending traffic or count as a reputable backlink. First all the directories asking annual fees are systematically out of my list, then these days no directories send traffic even the biggest except the niche directories. As far as backlinks, I don't see how they can help you because most directories are permanently penalized by Google. Most site owners have turned their back on this industry and this is why they are trying to sell $300 or more just a link that do not provide juice anymore. I don't even talk about the crowded directories exploited to the last drop.
    You completely missed my point. I used a directory as a mere example. I might have as well said a search engine, a portal, a blog etc. I don't wanna get into the effectiveness of directories specifically, just make a point that apparently eludes you (though I think you just evade it).


    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    You are in total contradiction with what you said, that's pretty funny in my opinion. First of all, I have never seens a corporation game changer like Google. Changing the rules every 4 month, even the governement you are against don't do that. I am for smart regulations, because excess of power is always a tentation for abuses. That's why you have some federal organizations in place, perhaps with the years some lost their integrity but you can understand my point.
    You didn't point out any contradictions. Can you syllogistically go through my points and show it to me?

    How often rules change is no metric I'd use to determine who is worse. The whole thing I'm arguing is that you can do with your property what you like, including changing the rules of its use by others. The big difference between government and Google is that Google wont send armed men to your doors to extract a fine from you or kidnap you if you don't do business with them. Government will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    The only companies able to adapt (like you said) are the big corporations with their power money. You probably never run an ecommerce perhaps it is difficult for you to understand, because it is not like a blog selling ads, or site made for adsenses or business service or drop shipping business.
    Does someone being poor justify stealing from the rich? I believe everyone is able to adapt. Amount of financial and material power merely determines how big expectations you can afford to have, but scaling expectations IS one of the ways of adapting. Scaling down, however, is often a good first step before scaling up again. It's all about sustainable leverage development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    I though you were libetarian? why in the hell are you tell me what to do? Is that another contradiction of yours?
    It's an advice, not an order (backed by any threat). Big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    Oh boy you are a piece of work lol

    If I take your reasoning, you don't have to tell a company what to do, if you don't like it, go somewhere else, if you don't like your country, go to another one, if you don't like the planet Earth go to another one oops it is starting to go sideway lol, if you don't like the air you are breathing, don't breave lol see how low minded it could be?

    Why do you think people have made revolution? Because they believed in what they did and fought the tyrans.
    You're mixing a lot of things up. A country is not a property, since property involves exclusivity something cannot be simultaneously owned by you and your government (and supposed nation-state). Government is also not a business. They function more like a legalized mafia. You make me cringe with the "revolution" talk. You're barking up the wrong tree.

    Note: If I don't respond anymore it's not because I concede any point (you haven't come even close), but because I don't want to argue in circles, and this is getting pointless. Cheers!

  11. #20
    Franc Tireur is offline Senior Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by memenode View Post
    Well, you're supporting asking the US government to effectively retaliate against Google because their business is now less favorable to you.
    Absolutly not, but you are not going in a gun fight with a knife, the governement is the equalizer in some cases.

    You're mixing a lot of things up.
    I was talking about your reasoning, I wasn't comparing apples (corporations) and oranges (gov)

    Note: If I don't respond anymore it's not because I concede any point (you haven't come even close), but because I don't want to argue in circles, and this is getting pointless. Cheers!
    If you are going to contradict me in all my threads to impose your morality with your friends with this kind of conversation, you will have this kind of answers, I don't understand why you keep going to argue in my last threads, I thought we already discussed about that before.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

    Voltaire


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