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Thread: China cyber spies access major U.S. weapons systems, report says

  1. Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    China is doing what all Communist-led countries do. They look out for themselves and no one else. The rest of the world is irrelevant, unless it benefits them in some way.
    By everything I've heard, this attitude is cultural to the Chinese.

    They do not give a crap about lunatic with the nuclear weapons on their southern border(NKorea). If Mexico were producing nukes with some lunatic talking about the glory of blowing up Europe, you know damn well there would be Marines on the ground in Mexico.

    They do not give a crap about the lunatics on their western border (Afghanistan, Pakistan). Same story there.

    They do not give a crap about their own people. When you have 1.5 bn citizens who mostly live in poverty, who cares if you lose a couple hundred thousand of them?

    The plan seems to be to remain completely militarily isolationist, while using currency manipulation and a quasi capitalist state to build up their armed forces and related technology. Perhaps the thinking is, "Who cares if the world blows up, so long as we come out on top"

    What I find stunning is that our administration would just take such espionage lying down, ass in the air, pants around knees, spreading our butt cheeks for them. If the details of this story are true, there are a million non-military things we could do in response. Tax US companies that produce things in China. Put tariffs on Chinese imports (trade war). Dramatically lower the number of Chinese immigrants accepted to our colleges and within our borders.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    One thing that Westerners do not understand about China is that the different regions are each controlled by a "godfather" general who is allowed to set up these operations to benefit his people and military divisions. The generals are not under the direct control of the government. If you can envision a Mafia crime syndicate structure, you can better understand the military hierarchy in China.
    Ok, but why are we giving up technologies and labor, making them rich to our ennemy, it doesn't make any sense.

    China is going to kick the occident countries butts like it never happened before, that's how I see it.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    Ok, but why are we giving up technologies and labor, making them rich to our ennemy, it doesn't make any sense.

    China is going to kick the occident countries butts like it never happened before, that's how I see it.
    At some point in the future, China is going to look to the resources of Siberia which has everything from oil, gas, god, water and timber. The Russian Far East is losing population and there are between 3 million to 5 million illegal Chinese migrants.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
    Ok, but why are we giving up technologies and labor, making them rich to our ennemy, it doesn't make any sense.
    There are several reasons:

    1. Most of the high tech military stuff is being stolen, not given. However, naive military contractors appear to be making it so easy for the Chinese to steal the secrets, that it is just like we are giving it to them.

    2. Too many Western countries mistakenly believe that they are dealing with honest manufacturing partners and a confidentiality contract is enforceable. They are not and it is not in China.

    3. I am beginning to wonder if the the leak of military secrets is intentional due to having a president who thinks we have an unfair advantage in the world. He is the first president with a serious negative attitude problem regarding what the USA is and how we benefit the world. From his delusional viewpoint, the leak of secrets could be "leveling the playing field." I would not put anything past this president. Remeber that he initially refused to wear an American flag lapel pin during the 2008 campaign because he did want to appear to be biased. Huh?! The president is supposed to be biased in favor of his country.

    The only reason for moving labor to China is that the labor is cheap. Manufacturing will always move to areas with cheaper labor to reduce costs. However, that always turns out to be a temporary issue. As standards of living and wages rise in manufacturing countries, they eventually price themselves out of the market. At one time the USA was the world leading manufacturing powerhouse, then it was Japan, then Korea and Taiwan. Today it is China. Tomorrow it is likely to be Viet Nam.

    Some countries and geographic areas turn out to be failures for manufacturing, even when the labor is cheap. The labor has to be trainable and the political climate stable. Our own Puerto Rico territory has failed, as has Haiti, Brazil, Russia and Mexico. Each had the potential to become major players, but is too difficult and unstable to work with.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    The only reason for moving labor to China is that the labor is cheap. Manufacturing will always move to areas with cheaper labor to reduce costs. However, that always turns out to be a temporary issue. As standards of living and wages rise in manufacturing countries, they eventually price themselves out of the market. At one time the USA was the world leading manufacturing powerhouse, then it was Japan, then Korea and Taiwan. Today it is China. Tomorrow it is likely to be Viet Nam.

    Some countries and geographic areas turn out to be failures for manufacturing, even when the labor is cheap. The labor has to be trainable and the political climate stable. Our own Puerto Rico territory has failed, as has Haiti, Brazil, Russia and Mexico. Each had the potential to become major players, but is too difficult and unstable to work with.
    You are talking like if it was a "fait accompli". I think people need to wake up and play economic patriotism. If some of our corporations are going overseas and compete unfairly with our national corporations that pay taxes and keep employees, the government should tax the imports from these multi national corporations.

    What China, India and all of these countries are doing is taxing our goods in their countries. These emmerging countries are smarter than us, but it is not too late to protect our people and our national companies against the dammage of these multi national corporations. Because after all, who is making our system healthy? Our national corporations or the multi national corporations operating overseas?

  6. #16
    True, but basic economics and politics always ends up playing a larger role. As we move more toward Obama's ideal One World Order implementation, borders and loyalties will become less important. I don't think we have a president who shows loyalty to the USA or serious concern over our economic issues, so why should an international business feel any different? Businesses are also getting pushed out by over 120,0000 pages of new regulations created since Obama took office. The current administration is doing almost everything they can to make it more difficult for business to prosper in the USA.

    If you notice the current pressure is on Apple for avoiding US taxes by using overseas operations. Apple is not doing anything illegal, yet politicians are trying to demonize them for simply taking advantage of rules that the politicians put in place. Apple did pay taxes, both here and in other countries, but they lowered their tax burden here. Why? Because we currently have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. That is offset by tax incentive loopholes that corporations legally take advantage of. To avoid this behavior, lower the corporate rate and close the tax incentives to do things overseas. We should not be subsidizing anything done outside of the USA. It is a simple concept, but incomprehensible to most politicians.

    Notice that there is no mention General Electric. General Electric payed zero US taxes on $8 billion in profits both here and abroad, which makes them a worse case scenario than Apple. But their CEO, Jeff Immelt, is Obama's Jobs Czar, so they cannot use him as an example. Two years ago Jeff Immelt was chastising USA business leaders for not spending more money to create jobs, while he was in the process of moving GE's X-ray manufacturing division to China.

    The only reason that for setting up manufacturing in China is the lower cost. Businesses also do not have to deal with unions that have destroyed our manufacturing cost advantages. The China cost advantage will disappear over time, but the advantage will just pop up somewhere else.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


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