View Poll Results: D What are your thoughts on hyphenated domain names?

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  • I love hyphenated domain names

    6 33.33%
  • I loathe hyphenated domains names

    6 33.33%
  • I have never tried hyphenated domain names

    5 27.78%
  • I have never really thought about hyphenated domain names

    1 5.56%
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Thread: Hyphenated domain names

  1. #11
    Hellas's Avatar
    Hellas is offline Very Unusual Member
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    I see comission seo above your sites and I am from Bosnia.

    Anyway what I think is that exact match is not holy grail and with certain work you will get up and catch that bonus.

    In case where no additional offpage promotion is done, domain without hyphens will
    overpass hyphenated domains.

    Only bonus hyphenated domain will get is keyword in domain bonus, not exact match one.

    However I think with Yahoo is different story.

  2. Thanked by:

    Kovich (3 April, 2010)

  3. #12
    MrFlicker's Avatar
    MrFlicker is offline Newbie Net Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellas View Post
    I see comission seo above your sites and I am from Bosnia.

    Anyway what I think is that exact match is not holy grail and with certain work you will get up and catch that bonus.

    In case where no additional offpage promotion is done, domain without hyphens will
    overpass hyphenated domains.

    Only bonus hyphenated domain will get is keyword in domain bonus, not exact match one.

    However I think with Yahoo is different story.
    Hellas Yes with Yahoo as with Google you can get penalised and even delisted if you use this wrong, but much of what is said and known is myths that have been misinterpreted.

    Take the TrafficPower Traffic-Power example as a prime case.

    Using paris-hilton-sex-tapes.com - pamela-anderson-sex-tapes.com britney-spears-music-download.com unless you are really infringing on a Trademark you are not likely to have a problem with that & is not likely to get persued and you may well be quite surprised by the results.

    Myself and another did an experiment with Alex Burke (you should have heard of her in the US? - Perhaps Bosnia to?) and it worked for both alex burke download and alex burke music both of which we got to page one with hyphenated domains but didn't follow through on due to other commitments.

    @hellas the opposite can also be said RE hyphenated domains as opposed to what seems to be mainly regarded as exact match no hyphen domains here to.

    Exact match applies to both hyphenated and non hyphenated but as you say and as I mentioned somewhere b4 it can still be beaten, and also be beaten with no off site things and just pure on site SEO in many cases - which I am going to prove over the coming weeks.

    The main reason for different rankings on different Google's in Geo locations is the inclusion of addresses and phone numbers on sites when they are limited to just one Geo location, like a few of my sites are.

    Easily solved in a number of ways, either by removing those sole Geo details or by adding other multi national details, to name just two things.

    Thing is though does oe remove Geo specific things and leave things difficult and perhaps deemed as untrustworthy due to lack of contact details?

    I have overcome this on a couple of sites by using the contact form on my forum tvworlds.com, but still feel if I lack a landline phone number or a snail mail address is not there I could be shooting myself in the foot in regards to trust issues.
    Last edited by MrFlicker; 4 April, 2010 at 00:19 AM.

  4. #13
    Franc Tireur is offline Senior Net Builder
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    I've got an e-commerce with hyphenated domain name. It doesn't matter, people remember my company name and look for it in search engines.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

    Voltaire


  5. #14
    TopDogger's Avatar
    TopDogger is offline Über Hund
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    I have a few exact match hyphenated domains and they do rank well, but required more initial promotion than an exact match domain without hyphens. I agree with Kovich that the exact match bonus does not appear to apply to hyphenated domains. Logically one would think that it does not matter, but the reality is that it does.

    In your example I see commissionseo.com in the #1 position, which is what I would expect for an exact match domain. I would not expect to see commission-seo.com in the #1 position without a lot of link building.

    I think users tend to remember non-hyphenated domains much easier, just as they remember dot com domains better than than other TLDs.

    If you are looking for a brandable dot com domain and the non-hyphenated domain is not available, I would go with the hyphenated version, but it is not my first choice. I don't love or hate hyphenated domains, but they would not be my first choice just because I have never seen a hyphenated domain that immediately ranked well due to the exact match bonus.

    Sure, exact matches can be beaten with some promotion, but an exact match non-hypenated domain has an advantage right out of the chute. I have seen competitive keyword exact match domains for WordPress blogs rank in the top 5 before any content was added to the blog.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


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    Kovich (4 April, 2010)

  7. #15
    bogart's Avatar
    bogart is offline Super Moderator
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    In the case of penisland.com or pen-island.com, the prevalence of the anchor text is what determines whether Google reads "penis land" or "pen island".


    In the case of mykeywordphrase.com and my-keyword-phrase.com. Lets say a slammer buys my-key-word-phrase and mykeyword-phrase.com. Do they get the exact match bonus? In my opinion dashes are a spam trigger. Not that the site will trip a spam filter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Social-Media View Post
    Cutts has told me in person at Pubcon that there are no differences with hyphenated and non-hyphenated domains in their ranking algorithm... But in page/folder names there are. And you NEVER want to use underscores as word separators because... well... they are NOT word separators.

    The devil is in the detail. What I mean is that many webmaster believed that there was a "duplicate content penalty" and a "sandbox". We now know that there isn't a "duplicate content penalty" and the "sandbox" was an unintended consequence. What happens is that we hypothesize on our observations. But for the most part, it's not really possible to "prove" or "disprove" the hypothesis. Because, there are too many variables in the algorithm.


    According to Seobook: "Only bonus hyphenated domain will get is keyword in domain bonus, not exact match one.". They apply this reasoning:


    As Google started getting more aggressive at filtering anchor text, they started placing more weight on the domain name if the domain name exactly matched the keyword search query. They had to do this because they were filtering out too many brands for the search query attached to their brand. Some examples of how this works:

    So, as MC said there is "no differences with hyphenated and non-hyphenated domains". But there could be a filter in play as described above.

  8. Thanked by:

    Kovich (4 April, 2010)

  9. #16
    MrFlicker's Avatar
    MrFlicker is offline Newbie Net Builder
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    Aaron Wall says he is not sure and asks if anyone has tested this here > Exact Match Domains

    Now I have the problem of the increasingly Geo nature of Google showing completely different results for US surfers on Google.com compared to UK surfers of Google.com let alone the major diffeences on Google.co.uk because I have Geo info on my sites where a UK snail mail address and landline tel number is displayed

    This is quite obviously having an effect as my sites are hosted in Utah in the US so the only explanation that seems obvious is the mention of UK Geo details on the sites.

    I notice today merely by mentioing c0mmissionse0.com yesterday here (which is why the 0's now) it has moved up. I doubt they did anything to cause this and if they did it would be a bit of a coincedence, that fair enough could also explain the sudden change on Google.co.uk LOL.

    This tells me that Google noticed the mentions here and reacted, also that quite likely they have it on Google alerts which leads me to suspect something that I am going to investigate at some point RE Google alerts.

    I still say apart from when Geo things on site are involved and so search results differ from place to place that hyphenated domains will still give the exact match thing that will in most cases likely give the page 1 results accordingly.

    Not a great example but (Bear in mind this is on Google.co.uk and I again have the Geo thing going on so result may differ for you) "SEO Lion" has my seo-lion.com site on page 1 with no marketing nor link building and purely down to domain name and the on site text.

    Knowing my luck my Tel number and snail mail address being on the site will make that "seo lion" search term a completely different ball game for non UK searchers LOL???

  10. #17
    TopDogger's Avatar
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    You also need to keep in mind that there is a difference between competitive and non-competitive search phrases. I suspect that very few users search for the phrase "SEO lion" (no offense intended) and very few web sites carry that phrase, which makes it non-competitive. It is very easy to get non-competitive search phrases to rank well. I would call seolion.com and seo-lion.com "branded" domains and not keyword-rich domains.

    FYI. seolion.com shows up as #1 and #2 in my Google search and seo-lion.com shows up as #3 and #4. Your Twitter account is #5. None of the other sites in the SERPs show "SEO Lion" in the HTML title tag.

    @bogart, the devil IS in the details. We do know that Google does not officially categorize duplicate content as a penalty, but they do get caught by the duplicate content filter. However, duplicate content pages typically get a gray bar PR and drop out of the SERPs, so I still say, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..." The net effect is essentially the same whether they call it a penalty or not.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  11. #18
    MrFlicker's Avatar
    MrFlicker is offline Newbie Net Builder
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    No offeence taken TopDogger I realise that a search like "seo lion" is unlikely, I would be suprised if anyone ever searched it tbh as it ranks for plenty of other SEO terms. The SEO Lion bit is just the sites theme/brand.

    I was using it as an example that it appears on page 1 with the word match alone. Probably not the best example as I think I mentioned.

    The Twitter account btw is not mine my Twitter account is twitter.com/seohiltonparis to go with my cartoon character here > Hire SEO - Search Engine Optimization - Hilton Paris Licensed to Search Engine Optimize You may find the story I am writing about the character quite funny if you have a spare five mins and want a laugh > Hilton Paris Story - Hilton Paris Introduction It's a comedy SEO story, chapter one is not finished yet but chapter two has also been started >

    Hilton Paris Story Chapter 2 - Hilton Paris meets Pairs Hilton at J Crew 5th Aveneue New York

    In chapter two Hilton Paris SEO Not to be mistaken for Paris Hilton Licensed to thrill or James Bond Licensed to Kill - Hilton Paris Lincensed to SEO meets Pairs Hilton the double of his secret fetish Paris Hilton only with bigger boobs - hence the name Pairs Hilton.

    In the first chapter there is a comedy element with a character called Alan Sweetner saying "Your Fired" to Hilton Paris after he is caught downloading images and videos of Paris Hilton on Comapny computers.

    The Alan Sweetener character is based on Sir Alan Sugar of the UK version of "The Apprentice" which in the US is Donald Trump of course.

    If you take a little read you should get a couple of laughs out of what is there so far.

    There are cartoon pictures of the large breasted Pairs Hilton in Chapter two.

  12. #19
    TopDogger's Avatar
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    A cartoonist, story teller and SEO professional.

    I like the story and the creative use of the domain name.

    That site could be a candidate for a viral marketing program if the story continues to progress in an interesting fashion.

    Are you doing the drawings by hand or is "cartoonist software" available?
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin


  13. #20
    MrFlicker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopDogger View Post
    A cartoonist, story teller and SEO professional.

    I like the story and the creative use of the domain name.

    That site could be a candidate for a viral marketing program if the story continues to progress in an interesting fashion.

    Are you doing the drawings by hand or is "cartoonist software" available?

    I only wish I could cartoon TopDogger! The cartoons are by a friend and partner of mine named Jamie.

    He will be joining here soon as Sami wants to talk to him about some cartoons. Writing, SEO and words are more my thing. We also have a Reg TM called the Double T Ted's which have the trademarked registered as "advertising for online websites" category at the UK IPO Gov dept.

    The plan being to start with websites like tted.co.uk HostTed.net and others -like my forum www.tvworlds.com (you can see how thye will be used to advertise there) and then to produce childrens books (I am also writing a Novel) and then the product list will be endless. Just imagine Winnie the Pooh and the vast product range and times thta by hundreds are there are masses of Double T Ted's characters and it will give you some idea.

    Once investment is found the products can be - services like HostTed the Hosting Ted Affiliate Networks from AffiliatTed the Affiliate Ted and once they all take off - toys - stuffed bears - ornaments - posters - pictures - personalised cartoons - curtains - wallpaper - bedclothes - childrens clothes - baby clothes - shoes = trainners - calenders - crockery - well you get the picture the scope is almost endless, imagine any cartoon character and the products that get made around them.

    I have 2 cartoonists ready and waiting for me to find an investor to do illustated childrens books. Four cartoonists in fact but two I need to bring back on board due to delays in finding partners and an investor to make this all work.

    I am a writer and ideas man and good at SEO though and not an entrepenuer nor do I have the funds to get it all up and running properly and still write the childrens books and novel.

    I also have no experience in the offline book publishing field so ideally could do with finding partners who are good at the Business side of things have money to invest and some experience with book publishers.

    I tried to find some partnership on DP but all turned out to be a wash out. Funny thing is Jamie and other cartoonists would only be getting 6% of Company each and I would only be wanting 15% and my Mrs 12% of everything other than the Novel which will be all mine as I believe I can make enough from that and film rights from it to see me comfortable for the rest of my life alone and that's without my SEO and the odd other thing.

    The characters the Double T Ted's also have the advantage that "Teddy Bears" are the most consistently best selling toy of all time.

    I totally agree about the viral nature of the Hilton Paris story, that was what I had in mind when I started it.

    I am now wondering how to have the "Your Fired" chapter appear with a character called Ronald Grump or something now LOL bearing in mind the Donald Trump Apprentice show.
    Last edited by MrFlicker; 4 April, 2010 at 19:47 PM.

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